Smart Ecosystem Fund Idea

Ecosystem Fund
22

Hey guys - YETI holder and staker (for CVP) from launch but not been following super closely.

Love this idea and it’s very similar to what we had at BitShares for a long time - a worker system where anyone could propose something and then it gets delivered.

There are (from experience) challenges - you end up with factions fighting over what is deserving and undeserving spend, and generally whale holders end up dictating what is done. This results in them not supporting things that might add value but supporting other things that are either pet projects or someone they like.

I don’t know how the weighting works for your voting here - in Bitshares every BTS you had could be used to vote for everything so the big boys could vote on as many things as they wanted.

You have a big advantage here that you are starting from scratch and have a new community who are enthusiastic and don’t have years of ingrained biases against each other.

Main thing I would say is making sure goals and success criteria are clearly defined - you need SMART (specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, timely) goals and clear criteria on what you are hoping to achieve.

I’d avoid getting too into ‘reward people for their contribution to date’ or paying for things like telegram admin duties (people do this for free anyway - potentially if you are a true DAO it would be good to have one ‘ultimate authority’ in the room but this would be a small bolt on to their role, not a specific role in my view) and focus on things that will:

  1. improve the long term functioning of powerpool.
  2. increase the profile of powerpool.

I suspect the guys getting paid for doing these things would be the exact same guys you are talking about rewarding anyway. Main thing is - funds are finite so every CVP spent should be targeting some improvement in powerpool/the DAO.

Bounties sometimes worked well for us, as long as the success criteria and evaluation were super clear / transparent (i.e. no favouritism, clear how winner was selected or if it was first to complete etc).

I’m sure I have loads of stuff but that’s probably a long enough message for now. Really hope you make a success of this guys, a decentralised fund to manage things is essential to a true DAO but decentralised governance is an absolute pig because of…well…people :sweat_smile:

On that note I quite like the ‘code is law’ approach to things like these - people are getting paid in CVP, they can sell that CVP when the code allows them to. Vesting periods that people are willing to sign up to could be used in assessing workers but don’t start bickering if (/when) someone sells tokens they’ve been paid for work completed :see_no_evil:

Apologies for any typos etc - I’m on my lunch break and getting back to work so I’ve not read back through!

2 Likes
23

anything but chico crypto please…

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Hard to argue, at the same time in my experience the “stay hunger” approach doesn’t work perfectly as well. especially in case this is an undisputable modus operandi

thats why we need to have very strict formal rules on what is the proposal and how it should be done
Believe me I am fully share your opinion that it would be too easy to rent seek spamming with shallow proposals.
On the other hand it would be much more effective if the community controls the quality of the input of a paid “employee” than the community to decide each time whether we should pay or not.

“If there was straight up a proposal from you saying, “Hey, I’ve done all this research, can I receive 5000 CVP for it?” plenty of people would say yes.”
this is what I am not agree with!

E.g - I would be happy to spend time and be paid for strategic research (and in this case your idea is pretty much applicable), but as for my recent input it was rather too urgent tasks and if we wait for another 3 days (at least) it would damage the Project.

Overall I like your ideas and approach very much and happy to cooperate on implementation of full blown govn model
(I believe that as of now we can start with an MVP version of govn)

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I agree overall with @pahuyswap’s nominations, but we are missing a critical marketing role here. Any marketeers here? Can we give any kind of role for the (remaining) testers? Afaik a lot of them are social media (crypto twitter) celebrities?

How will these hires work exactly? The @powerpoolAdmin team seem to be suggesting a freelancer/pay by job mode, while @Getmegone is suggesting more of a full time commitment. I’m not sure one size fits all here. A freelancer mode works quiet well for 1-off jobs such as translation, graphics or a particular type of research (such as @vasilysumanov’s), however for strategists/marketeers I’m not sure this is the case. A strategist needs to commit more continuous and consistent time/effort into 1) keeping up with the in-house developments 2) with the overall industry’s happenings 3) researching/analyzing 4) possibly expand this work into a more biz dev role

Yes, I’m obviously suggesting @Sergey should maybe get paid a fixed salary (or make him a politician already), it doesn’t have to be a FT salary, as he probably doesn’t want to commit 100% of his time only in this project anyway. Nevertheless he’s probably been the community member that has spent the most amount of time contributing, and he has never asked for a dime.

@monteluna are you suggesting for protocol politicians to have more of a management role in day-to-day operations?

I kinda agree with @Matle85 about rewarding people for their contribution to date, we are just gonna go in loops here, if some people are getting paid, why others shouldn’t be, etc.

Overall quiet like the team’s response fo the ecosystem fun.

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yes yes yes

brilliant

please share more of your thoughts! your experience is very helpful here!

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“Afaik a lot of them are social media (crypto twitter) celebrities?”
I had a huge support from https://t.me/incrypted - they are not testers, just interested in project. They posted some of my translations, also we are going to make content about PP together.
So in ru-community I guess there are some of our supporters who did it for free but should be rewarded also). Ofc there is @Lamer who made video about PP but he is also a tester.
Oh and also there are these guys https://www.youtube.com/c/DoubleTOPTraders who shilled PowerPool a bit.
So in ru-community there are 3 channels/influencers who support PowerPool.
UPD. Ofc @Zero

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I’m really OK with supporting whoever has contributed so far. Don’t get me wrong, if someone can bother to create the proposal listing down everything that has been done, you got my vote. My point it’s really that, if you are going to define a reward for each type of work, it’s gonna be a burden, for now and for the future. Why not invest in a more permanent team? Set a fixed reward, for recurrent work.

If you guys have already been collaborating before, would you wanna form a team? Any interest to expand this scope of work to other communities besides ru?

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Guys please, create the proposal, and list all the work which has to be paid (previous work that had been done). Looking forward to your numbers @Getmegone ans @alb2001. And others. Let’s make it guys!

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Guys, BEFORE you create proposal, please submit its text here for discussion as for what jobs have been done and what future roles are supposed to be paid for.

1 Like
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Ok, part about translators and translations:

  1. reminder that everything is posted here about translations in details - Proposal 17: Translator`s value proposition for PowerPool
  2. Info about all the translations that has been made by me and Alb are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwZ0pjP86WzhYPvf_YvZNOl5mNg0IKHAomPQ5JHoA2I/edit#gid=1271808783
  3. I didn`t fill the “is deadline exceeded?” for @alb2001 yet, it will be done soon, but I offer not to cut in half rewards for Alb in cases when he exceeded deadline cuz there was no deadline yet (I just se it for myself and I hope it will be approved for next proposal);
  4. also I offer to take into account the amount of translated articles in leveling system which helps to keep experienced translators in PowerPool ecosystem (again, all the info about it in my proposal).
  5. amount to pay (posted in google docs but I will also post it here cuz it probably goes to proposal about fund):
    October: Getmegone - 235.65 CVP, Alb - 235.65 CVP;
    November: Getmegone - 429.225 CVP, Alb - 402.7 CVP;
    December: Getmegone - 255.87 CVP, Alb - 252.43 CVP;
    January: Getmegone - 69.21 CVP, Alb - 69.21 CVP.
    Total for translations: Getmegone - 990 СVP, Alb - 956 CVP.
    If community accepts my offer to reward me for creating community of translators (we got Russian, Spanish, French, Hebrew, Chinese, Turkish language translators already), creating rules, tracking quality of translations and deadlines,
    monthly reporting on the amount of awards for translators and my services as a leader of this area, then, according to my proposal №17, I ask for 10% of the all the other translators rewards for this services. Atm there is only Alb`s translations being counted, so its 95,6 CVP plus to 990 CVP and its 1085,6 CVP total for Getmegone and 956 CVP for Alb.
    If team needs wallet addresses for payment I will share them in DM. I offer not to share it with everyone cuz its kinda personal information and will help to avoid possible fraud.

I offer to count and reward all the other translations that already has been made by all the other translators in February payment. I will collect all the info and share it later accordingly to my proposal.

And there is a text for proposal about translators:

Languages for future translations: Russian, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, Portuguese, Korean, Malay, Turkish. due to 17-th proposal. Can be changed if community asks to add French and Hebrew. If this languages accepted by community, I will find translators for them and integrate translators in PowerPool ecosystem.

“As “Democracy cant exist without rewards”, we can hardly expect the most active community members with relevant skill sets to allocate enough time to work on numerous tasks for PP without a clear understanding of what can they earn.”
So this can be the first part of Ambassador`s program and first step to incentive contributors.

Specification :
Here how I suggest to do it:

  1. All the translators joins server for PowerPool translators : https://discord.gg/dxFfVUPZhY
    This is a place where we will discuss articles in terms of translation, share tools for work etc.
  2. Every translator will set a nickname on the server like “nickname_country” . For example “Getmegone_RU”.
  3. Leveling system : there are gonna be roles on server depending on the amount of translated articles for PowerPool:
    Common translator: 0–24 articles translated;
    Uncommon translator: 25–49 articles translated;
    Rare translator: 50–74 articles translated;
    Epic translator: 75–99 articles translated;
    Legendary translator: 100+ articles translated;
    Raid boss: 200+ articles translated.
    All these roles affect the salary.
  4. Deadline : 48 hours from the moment of publishing article in https://t.me/powerpoolcvp if original article was posted from Sunday to Thursday to the moment when translation posted in “lang-request”; 72 hours from the moment of publishing article in https://t.me/powerpoolcvp if original article was posted from Friday to Saturday to the moment when translation posted in “lang-request”; if deadline is violated by 24 hours, translators get 75% of the regular payment for this article; if deadline is violated by 24 + hours, translator gets 50% of of the regular payment for this article. We can face some exceptions like https://medium.com/powerpool/understanding-value-of-cvp-token-and-meta-governance-value-creation-pattern-a530d1a1dec1 (huge article with a very tough text);
  5. No full-machine translations : once per month I will check random translations from every translator. I will translate original article into native language of translator witl google translate (or any other machine-translator if needed), then compare it with the text from translator with this tool https://textcompare.ru/app . If the Levenshtein distance gonna be less then 1000 (let`s start with this number, I need to backtest on my own translations) I will assume that this article was almost fully translated with a machine-translator.
  6. Payment : Imo we should pay according to the amount of words from the original article and level of the translator:
    Common translator: 0–24 articles translated; 0.025 CVP per word in the first 24 articles translated .
    Uncommon translator: 25–49 articles translated; 0.03 CVP per word in next 24 articles translated.
    Rare translator: 50–74 articles translated; 0.035 CVP per word in next 24 articles translated.
    Epic translator: 75–99 articles translated; 0.04 CVP per word in next 24 articles translated.
    Legendary translator: 100+ articles translated; 0.045 CVP per word in next 100 articles translated.
    Raid boss: 200+ articles translated. 0.05 CVP per word in next articles translated.

Let’s give an example (this data is current on 27.12.2020):

I started translating PowerPool articles since the 9-th of October 2020 (https://getmegone1991.medium.com/ )

I translated 6 articles in October, its 9426 words, all the articles were translated in the first 24 hours after the original article was released in PowerPool medium. 9426*0,025 = 235,65 CVP;

I translated 18 articles in November, it is 18290 words, all the articles were translated in the first 48 hours after the original article was released in PowerPool medium except the biggest one (https://medium.com/powerpool/understanding-value-of-cvp-token-and-meta-governance-value-creation-pattern-a530d1a1dec1) which had 3344 words. This one was translated in a week. (18290–3344)0.025 + 33440.0125=373,65+41,8=415,45 CVP That` s 24 articles translated already and I leveled up to Uncommon translator

In December I translated 4 articles, it`s 4466 words. All the articles were translated in the first 48 hours after the original article was released in PowerPool Medium. Now I get 0.03 CVP per word.
4466 * 0.03 = 134 CVP

So for 29 translated articles I will get 235,65+415,45+134= 785 CVP. That`s for two months of translating articles. Or 392 CVP per month average.
If there are gonna be for example 10 translators, it’s gonna be 10 translators * 392 CVP per month = 3920 CVP per month or 3920 * 12 months = 47100 CVP per year total. We can set up 10 most popular languages for translation or even more if we want to. Of course we need to keep in mind that over time rewards will grow due to leveling system. But this is necessary incentive for our job.

7. How to pay translators

Every month I will ask every translator to fill the table like this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwZ0pjP86WzhYPvf_YvZNOl5mNg0IKHAomPQ5JHoA2I/edit?usp=sharing with info about:

  1. links to the translated articles
  2. time and date of sharing this kinks in “lang-request”
  3. Discord nickname
  4. Wallet address
    All this has to be done in the first 5 days of each month.

After that I will have 5 days to check 25% of all the translated articles randomly with https://textcompare.ru/app to check if the translation was made with or without machine-translation. Also I will check comments in medium to figure out if there are some negative comments devoted to the quality of translation. If the Levenshtein distance is below 1000 (this number can be changed after the backtest of all my translations) translation will be declined. If the deadline was violated, the amount of CVP per article will be recalculated. After my approval team sends on my wallet the amount of CVP needed to pay for translations and I will send the “salary” per last month to every contributor.

Also I would like to get 10% share of the total amount CVP paid to translators for every month due to my time spent creating a community of translators, checking their quality of job, sending payments, gas fees etc. So it’s about 315 CVP per month additionally if we have 10 translators.

1 Like
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Hi, I am also a translator and would like to join the PP reward system (I am so excited about the PowerPool technology and investment opportunities that I cannot stop talking about it to people, so translating articles would be a great job for me, if I can get paid for it), however my native language is not in the group of the languages proposed for funding… SO my question is… is there any way to be part of the funding somehow in the future or maybe we should now consider to include ALL languages into the funding.

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Hey mate. Join this discussion: Proposal 17: Translator`s value proposition for PowerPool
And join our discord: https://discord.gg/dxFfVUPZhY
About languages: its all depends on community. I posted analytics with details about chosen languages, so if u have another metrics that prove that your native language should be added or any other reasons that will be supported by community, please share it in 17th proposal.

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Should we create a shared doc with all precious contributions across the PowerPool universe before creating a proposal? Or just share it here? What do you think?
@Getmegone @Sergey, can’t tag more ppl like DrGonzo, PP admin and more protocol politicians

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I think that we can share all the info right here like:

  1. @Getmegone , 37 translations - https://getmegone1991.medium.com/, leader of translators 1030CVP.
  2. @alb2001, 36 translations - https://medium.com/@alb2001, 909.2 CVP.
  3. @Sergey, demi-god of analytics, chosen one etc.
    With the links to all the jobs that has been done (if possible ofc).
    And then create a proposal, so we will have motivation and specification.
    And please lets dont forget about the future contributors and contributions: we still need to set the rules for them. And this rules probably should be included in proposal about ecosystem fund (and reminder again: proposal about translators has been posted in this thread earlier. I think its the best scheme for us).
36

As I got from the team response:

We still need to decide on a couple of things:
Tracking work results:

  1. The group of most community members with the highest CVP stakes should be in charge of controlling the results of paid work. Another option — elect a special group of people from the Community team for that.

Do we want whales to control the pay alone? I think a mix of top CVP holders and the most active/trusted community members is the best.

2. Payments:
We need to establish rules only for the current group of contributors. Going forward, each new hire can have a different set of rules (Amount, Vesting etc)

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  1. “I think a mix of top CVP holders and the most active/trusted community members is the best.” - agree
  2. u mean group or specific persons?
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2 - I think it could be both. In your case, it’s a group + person. In @Sergey case, it’s more like a personal rule.

The main that we need to go through the reward rules only for the current contributors.

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Guys (especially those who contributed) and deserve rewards: share your vision about this topic)

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And my suggestion about Media-influencers:
maybe we should reward them depending on views of posts/videos/articles about powerpool?
I want marketers to help with this point as PowerPool being supported by a couple of russian crypto-influencers

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Guys, I don`t believe u dead)
Share your thoughts and ideas of lets just accept 17th proposal (about translators) + add there info about rewarding contributors from this post Smart Ecosystem Fund Idea and then discuss separately how to deal with future contributions and “hires”.
If anyone feels forgotten and abandoned cuz he/she contributed a lot but wasnt mentioned by topic starter - let us know.