Questions regarding pipt

Product Questions
#1

I would appreciate if someone can help me with some questions i have regarding PIPT , i am trying to understand how things work but i guess i am not that tech savvy , so please forgive me if my questions may sound naive

  1. I originally bought pipt back on Dec , so i went to balancer PIPT/ETH pair buy pipt and then deposit Pipt to powerpool’s PIPT mining pool to earn CVP.

A few days later i decided to add some more pipt to my portfolio , but when i deposited to PIPT mining pool

automatically (without manually claiming any tokens) my vested CVP tokens withdrawn! Is this how it works ?

  1. If i withdraw all my PIPT from staking pool is automatically also my vested CVP tokens claimed and withdrawn? What about the un-vested tokens in this case?

Should i wait to become vested and claim at a later time?

  1. Is there any fees charged for unstaking (except from the gas fees ) , and how much if any ?

  2. I am staking pipt for more than a month and i noticed that pipt is severely underperforming if compared with the underlying assets! I mean had i just hold these 8 assets their usd value would be at least 30% more than the current usd value of my pipt balance. Is this due to the rebalancing nature of the pipt index , is this similar to what is called Impermanent loss ?

Thanks in advance

#2

Ok mate, question by question:

  1. Yes, vested CVP automatically moves to your wallet when you stake/unstake PIPT.

  2. Vested token moves to your wallet and left earned CVP will vest over 10 weeks.

  3. No other fees

  4. It’s related to the AMM design. New ASSY index is a DAMM product, and has no problem, learn more about DAMM and PowerPool v2 here: https://medium.com/powerpool/powerindex-v2-unlimited-etfs-automated-portfolio-strategies-6086917e6348

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#3

Couldn’t ask for more crystal clear answer!
Thanks mate!

#4

ASSY index will be the first PowerPool index to have DAMM algorithm. Power Index will also get DAMM integrated into it as well, but we will have to wait a little while for that.

DAMM will make it much better.

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#5

Any estimated time for ASSY launching and PIPT DAMM integration ?

#6

ASSY already launched. The cvp boost function (for people who want more returns) where you need to also lock cvp will be activated in about 6 hours.

DAMM will be implemented in about roughtly 1 week - 10 days for the ASSY index

DAMM integration for Power Index and YETI will take some time. I cant give time estimation.

But make sure to read the latest article on https://medium.com/@powerpoolcvp about the ASSY index. And follow the team official discord please

#7

So the difference in performance between PIPT token and a hypothethical index (holding an equal weight of the 8 constituents) is huge? Can someone give an example of the explanation? My understanding was that the vast majority of AUM contributions to PIPT were in ETH and there is no impermanent loss or anything like as it just implies the smart contract buys 8 defi tokens with the contributed ETH… I am also super doubtful the huge difference is explained by yield enhancement done by PIPT…PIPT has more than doubled while the index is only up 23% in the same period

This is a graph comparing PIPT and its index … both rebased as of 9th Dec (earliest data available on coinmarketcap.com)

CVP_powerPool
CVP_powerPool2357×827 148 KB

#8

what does PIPT index mean here?

#9

PIPT Index = (PriceAAVE+PriceYFI+PriceSNX+PriceCVP+PriceCOMP+PricewNXM+PriceMKR+PriceUNI ) / 8

#10

I would gladly upload a spreadsheet but the functionality is not supported…all price data is from cryptocompare except for PIPT data which is from coinmarketcap…I used hourly data but due to the fact that coinmarketcap provides daily data only I have assumed that the price is the same for the entire day…no better way of getting PIPT historical price for now

#11

AMM pool collects fees from swaps inside the pool, making PIPT appreciate. I would suggest adding one more data set to your chart:

Fair price = Price of underlying (pooled) assets / total supply

assets pooled - https://etherscan.io/address/0x26607ac599266b21d13c7acf7942c7701a8b699c

Screen Shot 2021-01-28 at 1.43.20 PM
Screen Shot 2021-01-28 at 1.43.20 PM1254×568 38.2 KB

Total supply - https://etherscan.io/token/0x26607ac599266b21d13c7acf7942c7701a8b699c

#12

How can I verify the revenue from SWAPs? The current difference between actual PIPT performance and the underlying index is enormous…if the SWAP revenue really explains the difference between the two that will be a huge selling point not only for PIPT but for the entire CVP ecosystem…

Are there any other potential revenue drivers for PIPT that might explain this diff?

regarding your suggestion on FairPrice

  1. In your formula, you probably mean the value (price*number_of_units) of the underlying pooled assets rather than the price of the underlying pooled assets?
  2. Is there a way to get both the nominator and the denomitor day by day for the past 2-3 months?
#13

So to summarize:
PIPT does not track its index very well so if an outsider wanted to track the performance of the 8 constituents, PIPT is NOT a good option because the return will be completely different

Also:

  1. nobody knows / understands why the performance has been the way it has
  2. nobody seems to care
  3. there isn’t a good way to find out any of the above

Good luck to us all

#14

hey man, seems like you are just annoyed :grinning:

  1. Everybody understands the nature of AMM and how it affects the performance of the PIPT price, you can read about AMM pools here: https://www.publish0x.com/cryptolul/saving-crypto-from-liquidity-crisis-xxomemm.

  2. All fees collected from swaps transferred back to the pool and everything done on-chain, hence verifiable

  3. The returns are not completely different, and for some reason you decided to neglect the fair price formula I provided (NAV/Total supply)

P.S. I apologize that I missed your previous reply, feel free to ping me in Discord if you need a quicker response.

P.S.S. If you share the g doc with initial data you used to plot the chart, we can look into it more precisely

#15

there is “details” section, and revenue from swaps is indicated there. You can assume your share of the pool and see how many fees you earned.

#16
  1. We as the team track all stuff and understand all stuff. Index rebalances all the time based on AMM and arbitrage trades.
  2. We care, and due to this we created and started to test PowerOracle back in October(!!). PowerOracle is an essential piece of Dynamic AMM infrastructure, that makes AMM index more efficient in terms of capital gains.
  3. You can ask directly me for all the stuff. Or @vasilysumanov, he and his colleagues are researching Balancer AMM and will deliver Python model soon
#17

I have messaged you and DrGonzo more than a week ago both here and in discord with the underlying spreadsheet data…still haven’t got why PIPT behaves the way it does…as it currently stands PIPT does NOT mimic the perofmrnace of the underlying 8 constituents…think this will be a huge deterrent for any institutional investor (or any investor who vaguely understands finance) wanting to get broad exposure to the underlying assets of PIPT…

#18

Can you share your assumptions/conclustions with us pls?

#19

That’s thing…no response…I really doubt anyone can actually reconcile the numbers…which is a problem :slight_smile:

#20

hey mate, to be honest, at this point I’m not sure what’s the issue here.

As it was stated before, there are several reasons why PIPT performance can be different from “casual” index of the same tokens.

  1. AMM/Rebalancing nature
  2. Fees collected inside the pool
  3. Secondary market float

Everything is stored on blockchain. Please tell me what answer are you looking for? Spreadsheet with all the data, dashboard, report?